bucketknight
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Please do not deplore yourself. Even if the world does not forgive, I will forgive you.
Posts: 549
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Post by bucketknight on Nov 28, 2006 19:18:42 GMT -5
Okay, here's a thread about one of the most minor characters in the game. Martha. What is she? Here's some facts.
- Martha is the witch that stole the clover in 'The Clover Field.' (If you don't believe me, remember who's hat you had to use to find the clover that was stolen by the witch)
- Jennifer notes that Clara looked 'scary' (i.e. scared) when she spoke to Hoffman AND Martha (see the sick bay in January)
- Martha was cruelly beaten up and stuffed by imps in Jennifer's disturbed mind
- Martha appears to be the only one aware of Wendy training the Stray Dog
- Martha disappears after Hoffman and before Clara (check this for me)
- Martha appears to be less of a witch after Jennifer has some time to look back
- Martha lives in what appears to be a storage closest in the kitchen
- Martha shows concern that the police is not doing anything about Wendy and the Stray Dog
- Martha does not appear to be aware that Joshua is Wendy during the investigation.
Okay, that was a bunch of stuff, some of it probably useless. So, now time for me to start yapping.
Okay, I do not believe Martha is Hoffman's spouse. Since she lives in a kitchen attachment, I definitely believe Martha is not any more than a maid. I do not believe Martha was a witch as much as she's a maid that's been around for a while and is the usual strict old maid. I believe that the reason why Clara is afraid of Martha is probably that Martha is probably coming to gripes with the possibility that this child that was under her might end up her superior, and that has Martha in a bad way, especially since that might get some other kids thinking that they do not need to listen to Martha (Diana, I'm looking your way, you multi-faced manslayer).
Okay, so here's a question I've got. Imps are only supposed to attack bad kids, and since Jennifer's opinion of Martha seems to be similar to Hoffman, why is Martha the one to get beaten and stuffed whereas Hoffman is still free to attack Jennifer? Plus, I think Hoffman's disturbed appearance is not that he was attacked, but that Jennifer saw him as that threatening.
So, respond away!
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Post by julia on Nov 29, 2006 3:49:58 GMT -5
I just see her as a nasty old woman that thinks Jennifer is filthy. lol
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jackdyce
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Everlasting Happiness is a Joke
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Post by jackdyce on Nov 29, 2006 10:11:08 GMT -5
First of all, from the letter Martha sent to the police...
Since Wendy was wearing her Joshua outfit while talking to Gregory, it seems clear that Martha knew Wendy and "Joshua" were the same person.
Personally, I think Martha was pretty nice and caring to the girls. I always figured her "leaving" was not intentional, hence why Jennifer remembers it happening with pity. While she has strong emotions regarding Hoffman's dislike of her or Clara's anguish (thus turning them into bosses), she remembers being sad and scared when Martha left, and therefore recalls it as the scary Imps dragging Martha away.
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bucketknight
Bourgeois
Please do not deplore yourself. Even if the world does not forgive, I will forgive you.
Posts: 549
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Post by bucketknight on Nov 29, 2006 13:04:59 GMT -5
First of all, from the letter Martha sent to the police... Since Wendy was wearing her Joshua outfit while talking to Gregory, it seems clear that Martha knew Wendy and "Joshua" were the same person. Personally, I think Martha was pretty nice and caring to the girls. I always figured her "leaving" was not intentional, hence why Jennifer remembers it happening with pity. While she has strong emotions regarding Hoffman's dislike of her or Clara's anguish (thus turning them into bosses), she remembers being sad and scared when Martha left, and therefore recalls it as the scary Imps dragging Martha away. I like the stuff after Personally. I'll buy that. I do not believe, however, that Martha's letter shows she was aware that Joshua and Wendy were necessarily the same person (even though I highly believe that). Here's why I believe her letter does not show it. Because the first letter was the officer mentioning that Gregory has a son, Joshua. I believe had Martha known that she would have mentioned it again to the officer that the boy he saw was the girl she meant. Now, a lot of stuff could have happened, Martha's disappearance might have been her going to the officer for example, or we did not get to see the letter. Again, I believe personally that Martha knew about Joshua/Wendy. But the way she handled the explanation (or lack of) in the letter does not equal proof in my mind.
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bucketknight
Bourgeois
Please do not deplore yourself. Even if the world does not forgive, I will forgive you.
Posts: 549
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Post by bucketknight on Nov 29, 2006 16:30:00 GMT -5
Okay, so I looked up Martha's letter. Martha's letter is dated Nov 24; the officer's is Oct 20. So AFTER the officer told Martha all there was was Joshua, Martha STILL did not make the connection that the officer did not understand that Joshua was Wendy. So that backs up what I wrote above about how Martha's letter did not show that she knew Joshua=Wendy. And actually, now that I think about it, there's no proof she knew. Remember, one of the kids (or Martha) talked about someone playing with a mop wig (while Jennifer was in the airship) so Martha might have never made the connection that Wendy was playing Joshua. She might have just thought Wendy was playing pretend (hell, Gregory was pretending to be a dog). So actually, looking back, I think Martha never made the connection that the Joshua that the officer saw was the Wendy she saw.
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jackdyce
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Everlasting Happiness is a Joke
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Post by jackdyce on Nov 30, 2006 13:56:16 GMT -5
Interesting. I'll buy that Martha never made the connection that Wendy was pretending to be the guy's son, because when she saw "Joshua" she only saw Wendy. Really, though, because Martha disappeared before the Stray Dog incident, it does not matter if she knew Wendy had been lying to Gregory about being his son.
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bucketknight
Bourgeois
Please do not deplore yourself. Even if the world does not forgive, I will forgive you.
Posts: 549
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Post by bucketknight on Nov 30, 2006 17:06:26 GMT -5
Interesting. I'll buy that Martha never made the connection that Wendy was pretending to be the guy's son, because when she saw "Joshua" she only saw Wendy. Really, though, because Martha disappeared before the Stray Dog incident, it does not matter if she knew Wendy had been lying to Gregory about being his son. Nope, it doesn't matter. Like I said, this thread is about one of the most minor characters. My mind just wanders when I'm bored (see my Howdy Y'alls thread about that). I was just curious since Martha seemed to be pushed off to the side and she seemed like she could've had an interesting story.
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Post by PrincessJennifer on Dec 9, 2006 10:38:30 GMT -5
I think Martha was probably not a bad person at all, as we are only really seeing Jennifer's twisted recollection of her. As a maid always cleaning up the orphans messes, she no doubt would often call Jennifer filthy after the others had done something to her. Plus, she was an adult and therefore considered scary in Jen's mind. But she was indeed the only adult not "killed" on the airship, besides Gregory, though he is killed later. We know she stayed on for a little while after Hoffman left.
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bucketknight
Bourgeois
Please do not deplore yourself. Even if the world does not forgive, I will forgive you.
Posts: 549
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Post by bucketknight on Dec 9, 2006 17:38:13 GMT -5
Martha was killed. As you were searching for the clover keys, you see the imps 'compacting' her and hiding her away. While she might not have been killed per say, most humans cannot get into that kind of position and be dead.
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jackdyce
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Everlasting Happiness is a Joke
Posts: 163
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Post by jackdyce on Dec 14, 2006 17:31:01 GMT -5
Hoffman and Clara were also "killed" on the airship, though they were done in by Jennifer. Martha's disappearance is more likely linked to her snooping on Gregory, who then kidnapped her and killed her. Therefore, Martha would be the only one who died in real life (Stray Dog being linked to the Imps would explain that in the dream world), and the other two were left (and Jennifer blames herself for their leaving).
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roman
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3V1L L33T
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Post by roman on Dec 22, 2006 13:07:42 GMT -5
Kids, and even adults, give insulting nicknames to people that can order them around, teachers, bossed, heck even parents. Martha was one of the adults that could order them around. That is maybe why she’s referred as a witch, no matter if she deserved it or not. Also, I only recall she being called a witch one of the storybooks. Martha was killed. As you were searching for the clover keys, you see the imps 'compacting' her and hiding her away. While she might not have been killed per say, most humans cannot get into that kind of position and be dead. But you find later Martha on the floor, of one of the rooms, in the second floor of the zeppelin Alive, but not being able to move because she was tied-up. Curiously Jennifer didn’t do anything about that. Believe me, I try but she didn’t reacted. It was like Martha was another object of the room.
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philweasel
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?Pain is good. Pain is sometimes the only proof you're still alive...?
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Post by philweasel on Dec 22, 2006 13:12:25 GMT -5
Curiously Jennifer didn’t do anything about that. Believe me, I try but she didn’t reacted. It was like Martha was another object of the room. Again, the tied up symbolism (Ie, we're blind and useless, bound by our own limits) Jessica could hardly help with that could she?
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Post by PrincessJennifer on Feb 23, 2007 0:02:49 GMT -5
Who knows? Maybe she could have. Martha did wish to help the children, but in the end, she was unable to despite her efforts.
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Post by Azure Princess on Feb 23, 2007 0:35:24 GMT -5
Hmmm... I think Martha was really concerned (and I mean honest to God concerned) about the kids - the only thing was, they almost indirectly thwarted her through the imps.
I think that when she was mid way through writing her letter, she was attacked - by imps? I don't think that it's likely that Gregory (as the Stray Dog) attacked her because he really would have no reason to. Unless Wendy said to him something like, 'Oh my, the bad witch is threatening me' or something or other, he really wouldn't have a reason to attack her.
Well, that's my take! ^^
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Post by ThePrincessWendy on Mar 6, 2007 4:10:29 GMT -5
A Witch, if you ask me~
She was never very nice and always complaining about something. And she always said us kids were filthy!
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