Post by PrincessJennifer on Mar 1, 2007 18:25:18 GMT -5
This is not by me, it was posted by Janster on the Atlus boards, but it was too in-depth not to be posted here for discussion. There are definately some parts which are inaccurate, so let's read carefullly and share our thoughts:
"As stated in interviews with the developers, part of the crux of the story is how adults and children view each other, and how children can make adults feel uneasy as much as adults can frighten and intimidate children. A good example of this age problem can be seen in Jennifers reaction to Carla. At 16 Carla is on the cusp of adulthood but the childen can still relate to her. However when she talks with the adults she acts like one of them, and Jennifer states that she then found her frightening.
Mr. Hoffman tried his best to be a teacher and father figure to the children, but he wasn't really cut out for it. Japanese games generally like to include elements of symbolism and hidden visual hints, so perhaps this is part of the reason behind missing Koi carp from his fish tank... they were both "fish out of water". Things get worse of course when it appears he started to have "improper" feelings towards Carla and we also see him pawing at Diana who is the eldest and most mature of the Aristocrats.
Diana is also a good example of this age clash as it is mentioned in the game that she was the most adult of them, but she feared what she was becoming because she didn't want to lose her childhood.
We also witness the worst of what children are capable of towards each other, animals and towards adults. Lies, torture, animal killing and the desire to kill others out of spite. In the case of Wendy she does kill others indirectly by the manipulation of the mentaly troubled Gregory Wilson.
We also see (particularly in the intro movie) how children can share things between each other that are essentially very innocent, but when viewed through our "tainted" adult eyes they appear odd, vaguely sexual even, and this makes us feel uncomfortable.
OK here's some probables as to what actually happened in Jennifer's past:
It would appear that Gregory Wilson had a son called Joshua. They were rather poor but Gregory used to keep Joshua entertained by writing him stories. Unfortunately Joshua was a rather sickly child who eventually died leaving him a broken man. The loss of the boy lead him to hang around outside the orphanage watching the children and sometimes bring them treats. It is possible that Gregory rescued Jennifer from the airship crash and decided to then keep her under lock and key, dress her as a boy and pretend that she was Joshua. Martha, the cleaning lady, became supsicious of Gregory hanging around and contacted the police on several occasions, prompting them to eventually visit where they fond he lived with a "boy" matching his own son's description.
Wendy was a girl from the local orphanage and head, or Princess of the orphans own secret society. One day she decided to follow the man who bought them treats and was sneaking around outside his house when she saw Joshua/Jennifer through the basement window. After repeated visits the two became firm friends and eventually Wendy managed to help Jennifer escape and one presumes that Jennifer then joined her at the orphanage. During this time Wendy would have told the others at the orphanage that the man, or stray dog as they nicknamed him, who bought them treats also liked to kidnap children.
As the new arrival Jennifer became the lowest in the pecking-order and was treated so. However as her and Wendy were already good friends, Wendy would treat her with kindness when away from the others. She is also treated as the lowest by the adults running the orphanage and given the most menial tasks to do, such washing the dirty laundry. It is likely that the experience of the airship crash, losing her parents because of it and being kept by Gregory, left her a rather sad child and difficult to get along with, accounting for Mr. Hoffman's apparent dislike of her. Also she may have been more perceptive to Hoffman's secret desires, and/or caught him with Carla also accounting for this.
Jennifer then found a stray puppy whom she named Brown. She showed him to Wendy who thought he was cute if a bit filthy. Unfortunately Wendy was a very jealous girl and liked Jennifer so much because originally she was the poor girls only friend. However she now had to share Jennifer's affection with someone else, something she found unnaceptable. She tried doing the same thing back by keeping a rabbit that she named Peter. However Jennifer remained unnafected by this so Wendy eventually decided to expercise her "power" as the head of the Aristocrats of the Red Crayon to remedy the situation.
The children tie Jennifer to the pilar in the "Filth Room" and then catch Brown, put him in a bag and then beat him. It would also appear that dental instruments were taken from the sick room and used in his eventual demise. Jennifer escapes her bindings, enters the Aristocrats room in the attic and finds her beloved Brown dead in the bag. She finally snaps and unleashes her fury on Wendy both physicaly and verbaly calling her a liar. The other members of the Aristocrats are so impressed with this show of strength against their leader that they decide to replace her with Jennifer.
Wendy has now lost everything, her one true friend that she loved, and the respect of the other children who now all brand her a liar and don't believe anything she tells them. This includes what she has said to them about "Stray Dog". She then decides to flee from the orphanage and plots her revenge by pretending to be Joshua and going to live with Gregory. While there she twists his already damaged mind until he is ready to do her bidding. After all he would do anything for his dear "Joshua".
On night Wendy returns to the orphanage with Gregory truely transformed into the Stray Dog and commands him to kill all the other children. Jennifer avoids this fate somehow, and it is possible that Gregory even turns on Wendy, then killing himself. The police eventually turn up to find Jennifer the only survivor. After some research they then realise that she also survived the airship crash and this becomes even bigger news.
That covers the possible factual events, they are then twisted around somewhat in Jennifers dream journey that we play through.
As for the whole purpose of Jennifers journey, I have a few possible ideas about it. The memories of her sad childhood have resurfaced after being buried in her mind for several years and we are witnessing her coming to terms with them. This could be symbolised by the shed with the open padlock on it. The memories were locked away, but not well enough so they resurfaced.
If she "dies" during the game then nothing is resolved, possibly resulting in her commiting suicide, hence the ending comment about her funeral. It could also be that it results in the death of her mind, leaving her in madness. If she kills Gregory Wilson by her own hand then she shows that she cannot forgive anyone and returns to the waking world a bitter and resentful woman, unable to form a trusting relationship with anyone and thus ends up alone for the rest of her life.
Now we come to the good ending, and what a great way of doing this it is. Rather than just showing you a movie we get to explore the orphanage as Jennifer at the actual age she was back then, in a warm sepia glow of acceptance. The player can just take the quick root and leave via the front door and then onto the final part, or they can re-visit every room (strangely bar the attic) and click on every item that could previously be clicked on. This time however we get the reaction of the adult Jennifer unfazed by her sad past and come to the realisation that everything that happened made her who she is today, and that she should move on.
On leaving the front door we come across Wendy drawing the fish on the ground outside. Clicking on her makes her curtsey to Jennifer and kiss her, who then returns the gesture. This shows that Jennifer can finally forgive her for her betrayal and what she did to Brown. Click again and Wendy looks up and gives her a gentle smile and a wave. We then leave and the gate shuts closed behind us sybolising that Jennifer has come to terms with what happened there and can leave it behind her. Wendy comes to the gate and asks her not to leave, because Jennifer is moving on with her life. However she cannot follow because she died there and can never move on. We get an important message if we click on the name of the orphanage next to the gate. This is where we are told about the Police finding Jennifer and realising she was also a survivor from the airship. Importantly Jennifer feels sorry for the other dead children, forgives them and says that they deserve to be remembered by her even though they caused her pain. Again we see Jennifer coming to terms with events and offering forgiveness.
Now when we walk down the path we can here a puppy calling, however we shouldn't go to the shed yet. Carring on down to the bus stop Jennifer muses about whether she should leave the way she came yet. I guess this would symbolise her waking up, but she knows she still has something to do. Gregory is sat on the bench writing, click on him and he asks Jennifer if she has any good stories. He then goes on to start writing "A girl... and her friend... its no good". I think this symbolises that there are no more situations in the dream world for Jennifer to get thrust into, as previously each was opened with a story book. The tale of Jennifer and Brown is finished and it is time for her to move on.
Now we head back towards the the shed and the puppy calling. On clicking on the door Jennifer again finds the open padlock. On going inside she finds Brown as a puppy, probably as he was when she found him in the real world. Clicking on him makes Jennifer pet him tenderly. We now go to the bucket knight in the corner and clicking on that makes her bend down to the chalk board and write on it. Jennifer says "My dear friend... I never want to lose you again. I'll protect you... forever and ever until I die..." and then writes again the phrase "everlasting. true love, I am yours". This seems a little odd as we know Brown is dead. However it could mean that she will keep him in her heart and memory from now until she dies. It could also be that her supression of the bad memories had made her forget about Brown, but now they've resurfaced and she has come to terms with them she can remember him fondly.
Jennifer then puts a collar on Brown and ties him to the post in the shed. He tries to follow her but cannot, she looks at him as she closes the door and smiles. This kind of seems a little sad or cruel, but perhaps he cannot follow because he is dead, she smiles as she shuts the door to show that she will keep him forever as a fond memory. We then get a very loud thunking sound, probably Jennifer locking the padlock, and then the credit roll. Again this seems a little odd as the thunking sound is very omminous. It could be that the memory of Brown and what happened is too painful and she wishes to put it behind her so she finally locks it all away in the back of her mind forever, never to resurface, but this seems at odds with her promise to protect him forever. It is more likely a symbol of finality that she is finished with the experience and ready to wake a new and happier person. One presumes that she now heads to bus stop, returns the way she came and wakes up.
Well if you've gotten this far... phew I can't believe I've written so much! Thanks for reading and give yourself and pat on the back. I'd be interested to read others thoughts on what I have written and also other theories on what happened.
It just remains for me to say a big THANK YOU again to Atlus for being brave enough to bring us this wonderful game and to Punchline and Shirogumi for creating such a spellbinding, emotionaly charged and thought provoking experience.
Jennifer and Brown, I'll miss you..."
"As stated in interviews with the developers, part of the crux of the story is how adults and children view each other, and how children can make adults feel uneasy as much as adults can frighten and intimidate children. A good example of this age problem can be seen in Jennifers reaction to Carla. At 16 Carla is on the cusp of adulthood but the childen can still relate to her. However when she talks with the adults she acts like one of them, and Jennifer states that she then found her frightening.
Mr. Hoffman tried his best to be a teacher and father figure to the children, but he wasn't really cut out for it. Japanese games generally like to include elements of symbolism and hidden visual hints, so perhaps this is part of the reason behind missing Koi carp from his fish tank... they were both "fish out of water". Things get worse of course when it appears he started to have "improper" feelings towards Carla and we also see him pawing at Diana who is the eldest and most mature of the Aristocrats.
Diana is also a good example of this age clash as it is mentioned in the game that she was the most adult of them, but she feared what she was becoming because she didn't want to lose her childhood.
We also witness the worst of what children are capable of towards each other, animals and towards adults. Lies, torture, animal killing and the desire to kill others out of spite. In the case of Wendy she does kill others indirectly by the manipulation of the mentaly troubled Gregory Wilson.
We also see (particularly in the intro movie) how children can share things between each other that are essentially very innocent, but when viewed through our "tainted" adult eyes they appear odd, vaguely sexual even, and this makes us feel uncomfortable.
OK here's some probables as to what actually happened in Jennifer's past:
It would appear that Gregory Wilson had a son called Joshua. They were rather poor but Gregory used to keep Joshua entertained by writing him stories. Unfortunately Joshua was a rather sickly child who eventually died leaving him a broken man. The loss of the boy lead him to hang around outside the orphanage watching the children and sometimes bring them treats. It is possible that Gregory rescued Jennifer from the airship crash and decided to then keep her under lock and key, dress her as a boy and pretend that she was Joshua. Martha, the cleaning lady, became supsicious of Gregory hanging around and contacted the police on several occasions, prompting them to eventually visit where they fond he lived with a "boy" matching his own son's description.
Wendy was a girl from the local orphanage and head, or Princess of the orphans own secret society. One day she decided to follow the man who bought them treats and was sneaking around outside his house when she saw Joshua/Jennifer through the basement window. After repeated visits the two became firm friends and eventually Wendy managed to help Jennifer escape and one presumes that Jennifer then joined her at the orphanage. During this time Wendy would have told the others at the orphanage that the man, or stray dog as they nicknamed him, who bought them treats also liked to kidnap children.
As the new arrival Jennifer became the lowest in the pecking-order and was treated so. However as her and Wendy were already good friends, Wendy would treat her with kindness when away from the others. She is also treated as the lowest by the adults running the orphanage and given the most menial tasks to do, such washing the dirty laundry. It is likely that the experience of the airship crash, losing her parents because of it and being kept by Gregory, left her a rather sad child and difficult to get along with, accounting for Mr. Hoffman's apparent dislike of her. Also she may have been more perceptive to Hoffman's secret desires, and/or caught him with Carla also accounting for this.
Jennifer then found a stray puppy whom she named Brown. She showed him to Wendy who thought he was cute if a bit filthy. Unfortunately Wendy was a very jealous girl and liked Jennifer so much because originally she was the poor girls only friend. However she now had to share Jennifer's affection with someone else, something she found unnaceptable. She tried doing the same thing back by keeping a rabbit that she named Peter. However Jennifer remained unnafected by this so Wendy eventually decided to expercise her "power" as the head of the Aristocrats of the Red Crayon to remedy the situation.
The children tie Jennifer to the pilar in the "Filth Room" and then catch Brown, put him in a bag and then beat him. It would also appear that dental instruments were taken from the sick room and used in his eventual demise. Jennifer escapes her bindings, enters the Aristocrats room in the attic and finds her beloved Brown dead in the bag. She finally snaps and unleashes her fury on Wendy both physicaly and verbaly calling her a liar. The other members of the Aristocrats are so impressed with this show of strength against their leader that they decide to replace her with Jennifer.
Wendy has now lost everything, her one true friend that she loved, and the respect of the other children who now all brand her a liar and don't believe anything she tells them. This includes what she has said to them about "Stray Dog". She then decides to flee from the orphanage and plots her revenge by pretending to be Joshua and going to live with Gregory. While there she twists his already damaged mind until he is ready to do her bidding. After all he would do anything for his dear "Joshua".
On night Wendy returns to the orphanage with Gregory truely transformed into the Stray Dog and commands him to kill all the other children. Jennifer avoids this fate somehow, and it is possible that Gregory even turns on Wendy, then killing himself. The police eventually turn up to find Jennifer the only survivor. After some research they then realise that she also survived the airship crash and this becomes even bigger news.
That covers the possible factual events, they are then twisted around somewhat in Jennifers dream journey that we play through.
As for the whole purpose of Jennifers journey, I have a few possible ideas about it. The memories of her sad childhood have resurfaced after being buried in her mind for several years and we are witnessing her coming to terms with them. This could be symbolised by the shed with the open padlock on it. The memories were locked away, but not well enough so they resurfaced.
If she "dies" during the game then nothing is resolved, possibly resulting in her commiting suicide, hence the ending comment about her funeral. It could also be that it results in the death of her mind, leaving her in madness. If she kills Gregory Wilson by her own hand then she shows that she cannot forgive anyone and returns to the waking world a bitter and resentful woman, unable to form a trusting relationship with anyone and thus ends up alone for the rest of her life.
Now we come to the good ending, and what a great way of doing this it is. Rather than just showing you a movie we get to explore the orphanage as Jennifer at the actual age she was back then, in a warm sepia glow of acceptance. The player can just take the quick root and leave via the front door and then onto the final part, or they can re-visit every room (strangely bar the attic) and click on every item that could previously be clicked on. This time however we get the reaction of the adult Jennifer unfazed by her sad past and come to the realisation that everything that happened made her who she is today, and that she should move on.
On leaving the front door we come across Wendy drawing the fish on the ground outside. Clicking on her makes her curtsey to Jennifer and kiss her, who then returns the gesture. This shows that Jennifer can finally forgive her for her betrayal and what she did to Brown. Click again and Wendy looks up and gives her a gentle smile and a wave. We then leave and the gate shuts closed behind us sybolising that Jennifer has come to terms with what happened there and can leave it behind her. Wendy comes to the gate and asks her not to leave, because Jennifer is moving on with her life. However she cannot follow because she died there and can never move on. We get an important message if we click on the name of the orphanage next to the gate. This is where we are told about the Police finding Jennifer and realising she was also a survivor from the airship. Importantly Jennifer feels sorry for the other dead children, forgives them and says that they deserve to be remembered by her even though they caused her pain. Again we see Jennifer coming to terms with events and offering forgiveness.
Now when we walk down the path we can here a puppy calling, however we shouldn't go to the shed yet. Carring on down to the bus stop Jennifer muses about whether she should leave the way she came yet. I guess this would symbolise her waking up, but she knows she still has something to do. Gregory is sat on the bench writing, click on him and he asks Jennifer if she has any good stories. He then goes on to start writing "A girl... and her friend... its no good". I think this symbolises that there are no more situations in the dream world for Jennifer to get thrust into, as previously each was opened with a story book. The tale of Jennifer and Brown is finished and it is time for her to move on.
Now we head back towards the the shed and the puppy calling. On clicking on the door Jennifer again finds the open padlock. On going inside she finds Brown as a puppy, probably as he was when she found him in the real world. Clicking on him makes Jennifer pet him tenderly. We now go to the bucket knight in the corner and clicking on that makes her bend down to the chalk board and write on it. Jennifer says "My dear friend... I never want to lose you again. I'll protect you... forever and ever until I die..." and then writes again the phrase "everlasting. true love, I am yours". This seems a little odd as we know Brown is dead. However it could mean that she will keep him in her heart and memory from now until she dies. It could also be that her supression of the bad memories had made her forget about Brown, but now they've resurfaced and she has come to terms with them she can remember him fondly.
Jennifer then puts a collar on Brown and ties him to the post in the shed. He tries to follow her but cannot, she looks at him as she closes the door and smiles. This kind of seems a little sad or cruel, but perhaps he cannot follow because he is dead, she smiles as she shuts the door to show that she will keep him forever as a fond memory. We then get a very loud thunking sound, probably Jennifer locking the padlock, and then the credit roll. Again this seems a little odd as the thunking sound is very omminous. It could be that the memory of Brown and what happened is too painful and she wishes to put it behind her so she finally locks it all away in the back of her mind forever, never to resurface, but this seems at odds with her promise to protect him forever. It is more likely a symbol of finality that she is finished with the experience and ready to wake a new and happier person. One presumes that she now heads to bus stop, returns the way she came and wakes up.
Well if you've gotten this far... phew I can't believe I've written so much! Thanks for reading and give yourself and pat on the back. I'd be interested to read others thoughts on what I have written and also other theories on what happened.
It just remains for me to say a big THANK YOU again to Atlus for being brave enough to bring us this wonderful game and to Punchline and Shirogumi for creating such a spellbinding, emotionaly charged and thought provoking experience.
Jennifer and Brown, I'll miss you..."
