bucketknight
Bourgeois
Please do not deplore yourself. Even if the world does not forgive, I will forgive you.
Posts: 549
|
Post by bucketknight on Nov 29, 2006 20:41:00 GMT -5
SPOILERS! . . . . . If you examined the painting of Mr. Hoffman, Jennifer states, "One day, Mr. Hoffman suddenly disappeared. Clara and Miss Martha soon followed, leaving me and the other orphans alone..." This happened around November 1930 if I recalled correctly. SOURCE: db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/rule_of_rose_script.txtThat does not prove that Clara and Martha left together (just that they soon followed), nor does it give any remote idea as to why they left (it definitely does not suggest they left looking for Hoffman).
|
|
jackdyce
Poor
Everlasting Happiness is a Joke
Posts: 163
|
Post by jackdyce on Nov 30, 2006 13:57:27 GMT -5
The fact that there were mysterious kidnappings happening at the time might explain Martha, who was nosey. Clara leaving is the real mystery.
|
|
bucketknight
Bourgeois
Please do not deplore yourself. Even if the world does not forgive, I will forgive you.
Posts: 549
|
Post by bucketknight on Nov 30, 2006 17:00:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I thought that Martha might have been attacked by Stray Dog, though Clara's disappearance is an unknown to me.
|
|
|
Post by PrincessJennifer on Dec 9, 2006 10:42:46 GMT -5
Like I've said, most likely, Clara and Martha left to get away from the crazy rule of the orphans and to get on with their own lives. They really had no reason to stay anymore.
|
|
bucketknight
Bourgeois
Please do not deplore yourself. Even if the world does not forgive, I will forgive you.
Posts: 549
|
Post by bucketknight on Dec 9, 2006 17:33:38 GMT -5
Like I've said, most likely, Clara and Martha left to get away from the crazy rule of the orphans and to get on with their own lives. They really had no reason to stay anymore. The thing I don't like about that is that Clara does not strike me as 'strong' enough to leave on her own, and Martha has shown no reason to want to take only Clara. And since a cop is aware of Martha's existence at the orphanage, doesn't she run the risk of people finding out the only adult abandoned the kids? It might not be criminal back then, but the social stigma can't be that good.
|
|
roman
Poor
3V1L L33T
Posts: 22
|
Post by roman on Dec 22, 2006 14:24:24 GMT -5
- After reading your comments, for me, the mermaid chapter was about Hoffman, Clara, and Diana.
Clara because she was the “unmarried mermaid”, Hoffman for his “relationship” with Clara and the owner of the stolen fish, and Diana as the owner of the mermaid doll and the person that stole the fish. Also, Diana was the one that punished Jennifer at the end, even though she was the one blamed, and got punished by Hoffman, for what happen to the fish. Probably the only time that trying to make Jennifer take the blame backfires.
- The only thing I do not understand if is the fish was really killed to create the new version the mermaid doll, of if this was a dream version of what really happened. After all, we see the fish and the mermaid doll at the end, both unbroken.
- Why the fight? : When Jennifer check, in the last chapter, the tray that Clara was avoiding her to look at the first time you see her, she ask herself if she will be like Clara when she grow-up. Maybe that’s one of the reason of that fight, Jennifer’s fears of what she has become as an adult. After all, even as an 19 years old, she let herself be manipulated again by the aristocrats, she was still a 9 years old as an adult.
At the end she not only recovered her memory, but the lesson she learned, to stand for what she believe.
If you were molesting a girl, will you write it in your diary? Also, maybe he didn’t believe he was doing something wrong.
Clara looked to me more like scared, first of Hoffman, and then, of the other kids. In the chapter after Jennifer was accused of stealing the bear prince, she was afraid to talk to her, one of the most direct proof the control that the aristocrat has over the adults.
|
|
hewie
Poor
"I will show you the fear in a handful of dust..."
Posts: 32
|
Post by hewie on Dec 24, 2006 11:33:49 GMT -5
I remember in "Once Upon a Time" Jennifer thinking: 'Perhaps one day I'll be similar to Clara?' (more or less - can't remember the correct speech). Jennifer doesn't seem happy about this. Clara escaped (I don't think she was killed by Stray Dog) from the orphanage and from her duties in the same way like Jennifer escaped from her painfully memories. "Escape" is never a solution, we know it so well. So Clara and Jennifer are (were) probably 'already' similar. If "Rule of Rose 2" would ever be realized, I think Clara should be the main character. The problem is: Clara suffered child abuse, so a RoR2 chapter with Clara remembering her sad past... risks to be MASSIVELY censored!
|
|
|
Post by avidgamer77 on Feb 20, 2007 11:03:28 GMT -5
It doesn't make sense, Hoffman had already entrusted the responsilibility of taking care of the orphans to Clara, why would she run away? Too frightened and not confident to take over the duties? And Martha, her letters to the police did mention her concern for the children's safety, especially from Stray Dog, why would she leave and put the children at risk? Too defenseless against any uninvited visitors? I guess if Hoffman didn't leave in the first place, this awkward domino effect wouldn't have happened.
|
|
|
Post by PrincessJennifer on Feb 20, 2007 17:02:10 GMT -5
Martha's dissapearance seems wierd because of how abruptly the letter she was writing ends. It DOES seem to suggest something happened to her. I still could see them running away to escape the craziness of the Aristocracy.
|
|
|
Post by avidgamer77 on Feb 20, 2007 22:52:02 GMT -5
Martha's dissapearance seems wierd because of how abruptly the letter she was writing ends. It DOES seem to suggest something happened to her. I still could see them running away to escape the craziness of the Aristocracy. Since the letter was in 24 Nov, Hoffman last entry is 11 Nov when he ran away from the orphange, so I'm guessing she's also leaving because everything is already in a mess, even though she still cared for the kids. It could also be on 24 Nov that she left the orphanage if I were to assume the letter abruptly ended on that day. She has given up of taking care of the kids, and becoming fearful of Gregory's insane behaviour. Jennifer's comment that "adults are so selfish" probably means Martha could have left for her own safety. Clara's departure before Martha is not surprising as she's lacking the confidence to take over, as if Hoffman is pushing the duties to her.
|
|
|
Post by ThePrincessWendy on Feb 27, 2007 16:30:25 GMT -5
Clara never really was one of us. She did not participate in our group, so she didn't belong. Perhaps our treatment of her because of this is why she left? Oh my, how very guilty that would make me~ We spent a lot of time together due to my illness, but I never really talked to her. I was always preoccupied with writing my letters to Jennifer.
|
|
Stray Dog
Poor
" ... Stray Dog will have his Peas. "
Posts: 58
|
Post by Stray Dog on Feb 27, 2007 18:57:17 GMT -5
Martha's dissapearance seems wierd because of how abruptly the letter she was writing ends. It DOES seem to suggest something happened to her. I still could see them running away to escape the craziness of the Aristocracy. Since the letter was in 24 Nov, Hoffman last entry is 11 Nov when he ran away from the orphange, so I'm guessing she's also leaving because everything is already in a mess, even though she still cared for the kids. It could also be on 24 Nov that she left the orphanage if I were to assume the letter abruptly ended on that day. She has given up of taking care of the kids, and becoming fearful of Gregory's insane behaviour. Jennifer's comment that "adults are so selfish" probably means Martha could have left for her own safety. Clara's departure before Martha is not surprising as she's lacking the confidence to take over, as if Hoffman is pushing the duties to her. I still think that Martha was killed. She was the only one who really cared about the children, the only adult who never turned into a 'Boss' in the game. And her letter ... It's impossible that she left after sending SIX letters to the police. 'Adults are so selfish' is refered, I think, to the police. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I think.
|
|
|
Post by PrincessJennifer on Feb 27, 2007 18:59:28 GMT -5
Well, that probably a point better to argue in the Martha threads, if you want to paste your above post there too, so we can properly discuss it without diverting from Clara.
|
|
|
Post by the0kid on Mar 7, 2007 10:57:33 GMT -5
After reading all the theories. The events of the game coincide with some aspects but I still think that the theories aren't concrete enough to clarify every ambiguity of the events. Maybe some, but there are gigantic loopholes. I agree with aspects of both the rope theories but they disagree with each other. But I accept aspects of each.
My own take is that Clara was becoming an adult woman and Hoffman desired for her to remain a child. A weak submissive child. His molestation prevented her from growing up because the traumatic events emotionally crippled her. Clara disliked Jen because she saw herself in Jen, but Jen wasn't being molested. So she was bitter at that. The rope symbolizes Hoffman's hold on Clara's development. He couldn't suppress her physical change into a woman but he could suppress her mental development very well. Hoffman, himself, also desired to be a child. But he was far too old. Thats why he can't be a mermaid. It isn't as easy keeping himself young no matter how hard he wants to be a kid again. Thats why he looks like a tied-up idiot. In Jen's dream she sees an old man who secretly desires to be an 7 year old orphan too. The house really was run by little kids. Again, this is just my take on it.
|
|
|
Post by the0kid on Mar 7, 2007 11:00:17 GMT -5
Also the rope symbolizes the attire of youth. Clara being bound in rope is like an Old Person wearing Babies R' Us footies. A wolf in sheep (kid's) clothing.
|
|