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Post by spookythings on Oct 21, 2006 23:44:29 GMT -5
the feet tying is part of my theory. i only just realised thats what he was doing as i was typing up that message, because i was going to say something else and then it hit me.
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jackdyce
Poor
Everlasting Happiness is a Joke
Posts: 163
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Post by jackdyce on Oct 25, 2006 12:33:04 GMT -5
I don't know that I would consider Hoffman evil, but I also wouldn't consider him good. Besides the obvious molestation stuff, the fact that he struggled for control over the kids throws some doubt over his leadership ability. Having to try and use Wendy's system to his advantage instead of just shutting their games down from the get-go was ridiculous, and his leaving because the Jennifer/Wendy split completely broke down his authority makes me wonder how he became the kids' guardian in the first place. That said, Jennifer says some pretty nice things about him in the January chapter, so he couldn't have been all bad.
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Post by fireflyprince on Oct 25, 2006 14:43:10 GMT -5
I hope this doesn't go the wrong way, but you all do know that in Japan when you turn 16 you're considered an adult and allowed to get married right? Of course it doesn't work that way in America or Britan. Anyone who engages in sexual activities with a 16 year old girl is considered a child molester(Even if you're only 17 they call it "Statitory Rape" or something like that). Maybe the Japanese game creators were aware of this, and used it to make us think? Did Hoffman really do anything horrible? What if he really did love Clara? Although it is kind of gross that he's decades older then her. Plus I'm not trying to call the Japanese pedophiles. If they think it's OK to get married at 16 then that's what they think. I'm not even sure what I'm saying. Prehaps this is one of the reasons Sony didn't want this game to come to the West?
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jackdyce
Poor
Everlasting Happiness is a Joke
Posts: 163
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Post by jackdyce on Oct 25, 2006 16:16:23 GMT -5
I heard it was because of that and because of the implied/overt underage lesbianism. And even if Clara is 16, the game makes it pretty clear from her freightened expressions that it's not consentual.
Back to the Hoffman thing, something else crossed my mind earlier today... There is a scene in the Sir Peter chapter where you see Hoffman getting tied up by the Imps. If he was going off of what Wendy was saying, I wonder if Wendy came up with the Stray Dog bit and Hoffman made up the Imp Sweeper part to keep the kids in line. Then, when the kids stopped believing in Stray Dog, they also stopped believing in the Imp Sweepers, which undermined Hoffman's authority. It would explain why he at first doesn't seem to mind being tied-up by the Imps, and it would also explain his lack of freedom when challenging Jennifer later on - his authority was tied to the Imp lie, which in turn became his undoing.
Just a thought.
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Post by cheviot on Oct 25, 2006 21:46:23 GMT -5
Nice idea... but here's a bit from Hoffman's journal:
"March 2 1930 Recently, the children have been engaging in odd activities and spreading disturbing rumors--rumors about creatures that come after children who don't clean up and stray dogs that kidnap small tots... It's all very bizarre."
So both the Stray Dog and Imp myths came about around the same time... and neither were created by Hoffman.
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jackdyce
Poor
Everlasting Happiness is a Joke
Posts: 163
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Post by jackdyce on Oct 26, 2006 8:52:11 GMT -5
I think there is a second diary entry that you can read during the Funeral Chapter after Hoffman leaves that contradicts that... Unfortunately, the revision isn't listed in the Game Script on GameFaqs, so I can't back that up. In any case, I could be totally wrong about that. It could be just as likely that Hoffman's refusal to tell the children that the stories about the Imps were untrue eventually crippled his authority, which would still explain his being tied down by the creatures before the boss fight.
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Post by Frisil (the clueless prince) on Nov 3, 2006 21:18:09 GMT -5
As I said in the theory thread, I think the imps represent the unseen forces of structural violence in the children's society. As this (the Rule of Rose getting out of control) is what crippled his authority, we see the imps tying him up.
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Post by Princess Eleanor on Nov 4, 2006 22:52:46 GMT -5
nice observation!
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Post by Carmichan on Nov 20, 2006 0:08:30 GMT -5
For some reason I could never really bring myself to believe that Mr. Hoffman molested anyone...
I think it's because throughout the game, Jennifer's mind was always very scattered and --let's face it-- rather unreliable of what truly happened, opting instead for a frightening event that blew the truth of the matter wildly out of proportion. I think when she was young, she probably did view Hoffman as evil. We all knew he hated Jennifer, for one reason or another, and we also can tell that Jennifer is VERY imaginative, given the almost ridiculously implausible parts of the game (vomiting, karate-chopping mermaid, anyone?). Maybe when she was young and saw how fond Hoffman was of Clara and Diana, her mind warped it into something more sinister than it really was.
Now, mind you, Jennifer was still young at this point, so I don't think she imagined Hoffman to be out-and-out sexually abusing them. However, I DO think she had imagined he was doing something horrible to them, considering he never tried to hide his loathing of her, and probably gave her some corporal punishment as well; given how timid she is, it was probably magnified, turning him into some evil beast in her eyes. And how many children do you know give actual descriptions of what will happen if they are caught by the monsters under their beds? They don't know what the monster would do to them, all they know is that it will be horrible, and they don't. Want. To. Be. Caught.
Jennifer probably never really gave what he might have been doing to the girls any thought when she was young; she knew he was cruel to her, and perhaps assumed it was the same with everyone. So, let's fast forward to 19-year-old Jennifer. She's old enough now to understand all the little inner workings of sexual abuse and manipulation. The imaginings of Hoffman were never resolved, and given his fond relationship with Diana and Clara, she probably settled on that as the horrible thing she could never imagine when she was younger. Perhaps Clara's fear in the funeral chapter shows her own fear and sympathy of what she thinks both Clara and Diana had to go through? In Hoffman's journal in the January chapter, she does pause for a moment, musing on how such things seemed so much more menacing and sinister as a child.
Please don't think I'm arguing with you and saying you're all wrong ^^;. I'm not trying to disprove that Hoffman did have a sexual relation with them, I just wanted to help contribute in the midst of some really great ideas on what the game might have meant. I loved reading everyone else's theories on the game, and I loved the amount of thought and depth that went into them. I hope you find mine interesting to read and won't think I'm trying to start a war or anything ^_^;.
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Post by PrinceJoshua on Nov 20, 2006 18:13:16 GMT -5
I dont think he molested anyone either. Hes just a strange person in my book.
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Ralph Goat
Beggar
Ze veel nevah zee eet cahming!
Posts: 214
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Post by Ralph Goat on Nov 20, 2006 18:15:00 GMT -5
Of course not, you're just stating your opinion. ^_^
I think that's a very good theory you have there, Carmichan. I never thought that Jennifer had inner-mindedly framed Hoffman. And dreams show how you perceive people . . It could be entirely possible.
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Post by Princess Eleanor on Nov 25, 2006 13:47:26 GMT -5
Really intresting views people, thanks a bunch! *curtsy*
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Post by PrinceJoshua on Nov 26, 2006 1:03:18 GMT -5
Apparently a lot of people believe that Hoffman is a pedophile. I just dont see it.
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Post by Princess Eleanor on Nov 26, 2006 17:34:25 GMT -5
You dont!?
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Post by spookythings on Nov 26, 2006 17:42:44 GMT -5
lol, princesseleanor. he could just be an elderly man who likes children and doesn't have a lot of experience with them. i still personally believe that he's an elderly man who likes children (too much) and doesn't have a lot of (healthy, legal) experience with them. but to each his own, right? personal interpretations keep it interesting.
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