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Post by PrinceJoshua on Nov 26, 2006 22:04:30 GMT -5
Lol. I really didnt think about it THAT way. He just reminds me of some of principle at a school. Not some dirty old man.
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jackdyce
Poor
Everlasting Happiness is a Joke
Posts: 163
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Post by jackdyce on Nov 27, 2006 12:38:33 GMT -5
"Ah yes... yes... Now, clean over THERE, Clara... Yes...."
Sorry, that just seems creepy to me.
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Post by PrinceJoshua on Nov 28, 2006 0:34:37 GMT -5
Creepy yes. Perverted no. In my own opinion that is. >_>
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bucketknight
Bourgeois
Please do not deplore yourself. Even if the world does not forgive, I will forgive you.
Posts: 549
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Post by bucketknight on Nov 28, 2006 18:55:18 GMT -5
You know, this may be a stretch, but I see similarities to The Cider House Rules in this story. I do not remember the complete details (it's been a while since I last read it) but the head of the orphanage came by also because of something that made him a kind of outcast (which seems to be Hoffman's case since he was paying his dues it seems like). In Cider, the teacher also had an orphan that looked like he would stay and help take care of the kids, especially in the doctor role like Clara.
Anyways, this is just some crap I've noticed.
As for Hoffman's abuse, I'd like to play the devil's advocate about his diary. I do not know if any of you have ever taken care of children long term like Hoffman did in the orphanage, but I have taken care of many children from 0-2 months till they were 12 or so, and I know many people who have. The way he speaks of Clara in the diary is much like a doting father/grandfather would, and I can tell you, anyone who has raised a kid for an extended period of time, regardless whether or not they are theirs, will speak of them as their own children. I have had many children treat me as an older brother or a kind of father figure as well, so Hoffman's diary description does not strike me as disturbing at all.
Now, after all that, it is in my opinion that regardless of the diary, something happened to Clara, since she is obviously fearful of being alone with him. Since I do not believe it was pure physical abuse nor pure emotional, I too am under the belief that Hoffman sexually abused her. I just do not find the diary as any proof of abuse. In fact, if it was only the diary as evidence, I see a father/daughter relationship in where the daughter is being groomed to take over the father's business.
I also believe that Hoffman himself is unstable. I believe he is one of those people who can be quite kind but has a raging temper underneath. This mainly comes from the scene with Diana about the fish. I do not believe he was 'feeling' up Diana. On the contrary, I believe he was trying to get her to spill the beans. I have seen parents act this way before. They stroke the child's head and arm and shoulder as to calm and reassure the child, but due to their boiling anger, you can see it not as the gentle stroke but something harsh. That is what I saw in Hoffman's stroking. When he could not break Diana, he left stewing. I've seen that too.
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Post by brown on Nov 29, 2006 0:11:22 GMT -5
Go to the sick bay (not sick room) and check the bed which clara was staying on (the one closer to the door). I don't see why they need that kind of bed in a orphenage with a bunch of children.
There's no doubt that Hoffman is 'sick'.
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Post by PrinceJoshua on Nov 29, 2006 0:56:05 GMT -5
It just looked like a normal bed to me. 0_o
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Post by brown on Nov 29, 2006 3:09:47 GMT -5
Ok let me point out the obvious to all you 'guys' - it's shorter with two rails at one end which I believe is for raise up legs, usually used during maternity check. In <The Unlucky Clover Field> Clara was sitting on that 'bed', with Hoffman sitting next to her behind the desk. It's the same sense where she denied Jennifer to open the drawer.
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bucketknight
Bourgeois
Please do not deplore yourself. Even if the world does not forgive, I will forgive you.
Posts: 549
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Post by bucketknight on Nov 29, 2006 12:55:49 GMT -5
I'll check that when I go home, but one thing you need to note brown, is that not everyone can buy anything they want, especially an orphanage out in the middle of nowhere. You take what you get, especially if it's free and works. Go to a 'poor' nursing home or any other group community of poor like a Salvation Army. They will take anything that works as long as it can function in a useful way (hell, sometimes they will take it even if they can't use it). I've worked in nursing homes that will take anything because, quite frankly, it's too expensive. So stirrups on the bed does not bother me. Especially since this was in the 1930's, not modern times. There were no GP beds and GYN beds and OR beds. There were all purpose beds and exam tables. Hell, if you've ever been to an outreach clinic, even in the states, you'll see a mishmash of equipment and supplies from different specialties. Why? Because who is going to pay for it?
And again, I do believe Hoffman did something to Clara. I was just pointing out that I do not believe the diary proves any of that.
(Annotation to my answer)
* I saw the exam table. It's really not too different from older exam tables. We have an archive in our library full of old medical stuff and it looks like one of those old exam tables from the late 1800's. So it's conceivable that it was a hand me down that someone got for free or cheap, which is in line with an orphanage. And lastly, I can't believe I missed this (especially since I recently watched one), but duh!! Remember, these orphans do not always leave before they hit puberty (look at Clara). Hoffman will need to do gynecological exams on some of the kids. Also, this was back when there were no official abortions. Back in the time, there were orphanages that handled abortions and births from parents looking to dump off their children, so there are obstetrics done too. So there you go. That's why that exam table is not creepy, because it has uses.
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Post by brown on Nov 30, 2006 4:16:02 GMT -5
If you say so... somehow I'm not convinced that's what game designers had in mind when they decide to have that bed there...
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bucketknight
Bourgeois
Please do not deplore yourself. Even if the world does not forgive, I will forgive you.
Posts: 549
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Post by bucketknight on Nov 30, 2006 17:22:14 GMT -5
Orphanages back then did do abortions and births. And since the creators actually went to the UK just to research the park scene (you know, that scene in the opening movie that lasted like 30 seconds?), I would not be surprised if they researched orphanages and airships and tried to recreate as accurate as possible. After all, they said the whole reason they chose a 'real' place and real dates is to make the story real (barring all the anachronisms).
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Post by Princess Eleanor on Nov 30, 2006 22:17:04 GMT -5
"Real" place?
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Post by spookythings on Nov 30, 2006 23:35:38 GMT -5
it seems a weird detail to me. not many of us who play the game would have been any the wiser if they had left that particular device out, its not like anyone playing this game would have hurled their controller to the floor in disgust while shouting 'HOW IS HE GOING TO PERFORM ABORTIONS WITHOUT THE NECESSARY MATERIALS?' i completely buy into your information, bucketknight, but i think the bed was placed there purely to add another sinister/disturbing/suggestive element between clara and hoffman.
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Post by PrinceJoshua on Dec 1, 2006 10:08:56 GMT -5
No doubt. 0_0
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Post by julia on Dec 1, 2006 13:11:32 GMT -5
I don't think Hoffman is qualified to give gynecological exams. Those exams HURT!!!!
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bucketknight
Bourgeois
Please do not deplore yourself. Even if the world does not forgive, I will forgive you.
Posts: 549
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Post by bucketknight on Dec 1, 2006 16:44:31 GMT -5
Yay!! Done with first of the weekly exams!! I don't think Hoffman is qualified to give gynecological exams. Those exams HURT!!!! There werent qualifications for a lot of things back then (you should hear about how abortions were done back then). As for the table itself, who knows, maybe there was one in an old orphanage they scouted? As for the exams, I'm glad I've don't have to deal with it, but I've seen quite a few so I know it'd not nice. But it's better than an endometrial biopsy where you can't get through the external os (I still feel so sorry for her, and so glad I was not the one doing it).
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